Horses and Greek Gods
Hey! This post is about racing and body weight. If the subject of body weight bugs you, please skip this post!
Declan mentioned in his Chicago RnR race recap that he lined up with the 1:30 pace group and noticed that he must have been the only guy near 180 lbs. I asked in a comment if he feels that he is heavier for the paces he runs, because I sometimes feel that way – my totally pedestrian PRs match up with people much smaller than me – and Declan said that, yeah, he is a little bigger for his pace (and also, that he is happy at that weight).
Me, running with people smaller than me. LOL! And not trying to be weird/insensitive about weight comparison – just acknowledging I don’t have the typical “runner’s body.”*
Later in the day, I was chatting with Gina, and she was telling me how she just learned about Clydesdale and Athena race categories. These race categories are optional (I think?) to enter, and defined by weight – ranging from 140 lbs and over for a female and 200 lbs and over for a male. So, instead of being in the age group rankings with everyone else, you would be ranked in this category only (usually).
All that weight talk in one day got me thinking.
First of all, I don’t think I have ever run a race that had the Clydesdale and Athena categories. And if I had the chance to register in those categories, I am not sure if I would or not. I mean, I will never NOT be Athena category. So I will always be eligible for them! I just wonder, if I was training for speed, and was going to go for an age group award, if I would rather compete with the “whole” than with people in my weight division. If that makes any sense. Like, if I am going to compete… compete with everyone. Otherwise, I am not sure I would care?
And I don’t really even need to think about it, because I am not one to place in races that often!
My age group placement strategy – small races/small fields. And don’t tell your similarly paced/same age group friends about the race. Ha!
Would you register in the Clydesdale or Athena category at a race, if you were eligible?
And second thought – it is very cool that there are people at heavier weights who have the aerobic capacity to still perform at the same level as people (much?) smaller than them. It will take more force/work (f=ma!), so it’s less efficient, but hey, is still works.
Fun news: while I was writing this, my brother-in-law, Andrew, emailed me that he got second place in the under 40 Clydesdale group for the olympic triathlon he did on Sunday!
*I like my more muscular (than slender) build.
Themocracy
Kim….very interesting question. I have been in races where they have the clydesdale/athena category as well as a master’s category. I have never, however, signed up for those. I am with you that I want to be judged against all, as an equal. I, too, do not have a typical “runner’s” body, but I will say I am at my fittest level ever – since high school. I know that a portion of my ‘extra’ weight is from muscle, which weighs more than fat. I know this because you kick my booty every monday night! haha. Plus, as a woman, we have to battle society on a daily basis that we don’t look this way or that way….so why would I want to, by my own making, subject myself to a classification that I regularly try to break free from?
Thanks for commenting! I think it is so awesome that you are at your fittest ever, and that you can do so much! I was surprised you said there were only a few women older than you at Spartan, but I think that is because I know you and think, well, most women Dawn’s age must be as kickass as her. And that sounds really rude to say “your age” but I hope you know what I mean! 🙂
I wonder what percentage of women cares about the classification… and which just want a better chance at a medal!
lol Kim to the ‘your age’ comment….I oftentimes forget ‘my age’ because I hang around so many youngsters at either Essential Fitness LLC or the running club. I sometimes have to remind myself that I’m usually at least 10+ years older! Atlhough I always want a better chance at a medal (because I came late to the running game and that medal gives me a sense of accomplishment & is a concrete reminder of how far I’ve come in my fitness journey), I’m still not willing to go into a classification that I have been trying to fight against for most of my life. I would rather just be sensible on choosing which race(s) I participate in.
You know, since joining GRC and Efit, I feel like I can’t tell anyone’s age! Everyone is so young and fit looking! I love it 🙂
Have you seen any races like this? I honestly haven’t!
the Pleasant Prairie RecPlex turkey 5k last fall had these divisions.
I don’t know if I would enter into those categories partially because I weigh about 140 (+/-3 pounds depending on the day, etc). Although I am skinnier now, I often felt when I played bball and ran that I was bigger than my speed. I am also pretty tall, 5’9″, and I have a little bit more bulk in my hips due to playing basketball and genetics. I think in the past few years I have stopped caring so much about age group winning cause my age group is stacked with fast runners in the area and caring more about breaking my own PRs. Plus now I seem to just run for fun since i am not training for anything. Weight is a tricky thing and even tho I am generally ok with mine, its tough to deal with overall. I think if you run and feel good then it doesn’t really matter your weight.
I think running for fun is where it’s at! 🙂 Too much focus on speed and trying to PR makes me crazy. I can only take it in short durations.
I think is is a really interesting post. I think it would be more fair for the athena/clydesdale categories to be by BMI or some other ratio of height to weight. I am definitely a heavier build than most other runners, but because I am really short, I typically am just under the athena weight. I did sign up for the division once and felt a little guilty when I placed first because I was only in by 1 pound!
LOL! But that one pound is a pound! And that makes me think of another reason the category is a bit bizarre – weight can really vary, day to day! You could have been one pound under!
exactly! I am usually either a pound or two under or a pound or two over. That difference doesn’t affect my performance at all.
I participated in a triathlon as a Clydesdale and still got smoked by the younger, more muscular guys. 🙂
Interesting. I often wonder about what I could do if I ever lost the last 5 pounds from Miles (but in reality, it’s probably muscle and never going to leave) but never thought about speedy people around me who don’t look the part. I think you look the part because you wear sassy shorts/pants and could beat me up.
LOL! 😛 I would never beat you up. Unless you weren’t following my slow dance training plan.
I am not sure if I would sign up for the athena division if given the option. I feel like it wouldn’t even be a clear representation of that group since some women wouldn’t want to label themselves like that. I sometimes feel like I run faster than my weight should allow but then I just try to focus on how strong I am, not on how much I weigh.
I read this post on my phone during my lunch break and couldn’t wait to get back to comment! I recently read Racing Weight which is all about getting super lean to improve performance and while I get why it works, hearing some of the stories made me realize how much I do not want to sacrifice certain things (like umm.. dinners with friends, dessert, etc) to get ultra lean to race my best. I’m sure dropping a few pounds would make me faster but it’s not worth it to me!
Also, the Athena category makes me really angry. 140 pounds? Really? I don’t think that’s quite equivalent to being 200+ pounds for a male (but I’m not an expert). I think it would make more sense (but be oh so difficult) to go by BMI or body fat percentage. Just my two cents!
Oh gosh! I read that book and thought, “No. Uh uh.” LOL! Happy to hear I am not the only one 😉 I am not elite or anything and will never be very fast, so it’s not worth it. I am so cranky when I eat too little.
Hmm. What do you think the weight should be? That is an interesting point! And that is just a low range. I know some races have it higher.
The main thing I liked about that book was its emphasis on eating carbs. I am so sick of running sources telling me to go paleo. I get that protein is important but if I’m training for a marathon, a low-carb diet isn’t going to do me any favors.
I think the weight classification should be like 170ish?? It’s hard to say and like so many people have commented, weight really depends on height (i.e. BMI). CARA’s classification makes sense too but starts too low in my opinion.
My ACE manual is all CARBS CARBS CARBS! And I have this Nutrition for Runners book I want to start reading after I pass my test, and when the author presented it, she was all CARBZZZZZZZZZZ!!!
I think it should start higher as well. It’s not like the people competing at these events are elites and way UNDER that amount!
When I volunteered at the Oak Park race earlier this year, they had a Clydesdale division. When I was helping with the race results at the end, it was pretty confusing since I had no idea there were different divisions.
I love that photo of you mid-high-five that you included in this post!
I thought of that race because Erin has told me they have that division! I think a few others on the CARA circuit do too.
Aww, thanks 🙂
Note about Declan is that he’s like 7 feet tall. Maybe I’m exaggerating a little. But IMO that seems like not very high of a weight for his height.
BUT! That makes me wonder, why height isn’t considered for the Athena/Clydesdale thing? Because at my height, I’m a lot closer to the Clydesdale mark (yes, I realize that’s just for dudes) than ever NOT being an Athena. Put another way, at my height/build, 140 is awfully close to, I don’t know, an eating disorder? It just seems like an odd cutoff on the womens side of things, and still a pretty huge range of people to be competing against.
And wrt your second thought, I’m always super impressed when I see heavier gals at races (passing me, usually), because I know that when I was 50 pounds heavier, I wouldn’t have felt comfortable with the idea of entering a race and actually planning to seriously run it. I’m also a little jealous that they DO have the capacity to run at higher weights, but I really couldn’t do it.
The start weight for Athena’s varies from race to race. I’ve seen it at both 150 and 160 but maybe they had to lower it due to discrimination. 🙂
Ha ha! Having never met him, I am just going off what he wrote. So now I know he’s misleading us. Thanks! 😛
Oh yeah, believe me, I am MUCH closer to Clydesdale too, and would look awful at 140. Sometimes, the limit is a higher weight. But I think it does go as low as that.
Well the good news is that you’ll meet him, and possibly the entire Stop Running Dad family at the sausage fest next month! 🙂
And I should have been more clear… I think the cutoff is too low! If it were a little higher, I’d totally enter and compete! May as well use my weight for some kind of advantage 🙂
I’ve been an “Athena” since birth. No need to step on the scales, I would easily qualify without anyone even raising an eyebrow of doubt. However, I have never entered an event as an Athena. In my experience, only triathlon offers that classification but I could be wrong. Initially, I thought it to be rude. Why classify those of us who are bigger, and weigh more, differently than the others? Haven’t we spent our entire life trying to blend in and now we want our own, special category to compete for awards? It was perplexing to me. I felt as if I were to win something then it would mean more if I were in my normal age division.
I’ve since met many ladies who compete in the Athena division. Some of those ladies are super competitive, some who do it for fun and fitness. I’ve come to the conclusion that it makes them more comfortable to have their own division. It makes them feel better to compete against each other. It gives them a chance to get on the podium when they may never have that opportunity competing within their age group. The Athena category tends to be small so their chance at an award is (usually) much higher. In the same way that some people need a finishers medal to wear home, some people need an age group award every once in a while to reaffirm that they too are worthy of the sport. And I’m all for whatever works. If it gets them out the door, to the startline and helps them feel better about themselves because they took home an award, then let’s get behind it. Everyone deserves to feel worthy regardless of their placement within the division.
I do think it’s a motivation for some people, and agree, if that makes you want to train and be healthy and compete, all the better!
I agree that the fact that the divisions are based solely on weight and not on BMI or anything else skews the results a lot of time. Plenty of people in my running club can run in those divisions (CARA has slightly different rules than what you posted) and chose to do so when they want to place in their age groups. For them it seems to be mostly about winning an award. Kind of like getting a handicap in golf or bowling. Would I do it if I gained weight? Yeah, probably. I like medals 🙂 And I know that I will never be fast enough to place regularly without a little help 🙂
Ooo, it’s interesting that CARA has ranges for weight! Based on these comments, I think people would like that more.
LOL! You crack me up! You have placed! You just have to choose the smaller races, like I do!
That’s interesting that CARA has different rules! If you do it for the Race that’s Good for Life, you weigh in before the race. They also go up to a D division (at least they did 3 years ago) That was the one I won in my age group/weight.
I’ve done two triathlons this season and have signed up for the Athena class in both. I had a lot of trepidation about it, but after I did some on-line research, decided it was right for me. I am over-weight and slow and since these divisions are usually smaller and MAYBE contain more, similarly-abled women, I figured it would be better for me and it was. I was scared and uncomfortable in all of that spandex. Being a part of a smaller swim wave and with women that looked a lot more like me gave me more confidence than if I had been in a wave with 100 lb women with not an ounce of fat. I would like to say that I’m close to the cut-off for that division by either weight or perceived ability, but I am not and won’t be for a while.
Oh gosh! I didn’t even know that when you sign up for that division they put you in a wave start with those people! Duh! That makes so much sense, and would make me feel more comfortable! Gosh, if I ever do a tri, I will have to look for that!
And you rock, tri girl 🙂
Thanks for commenting!
Great question! I am definitely eligible for these divisions, and often thought about registering but have yet to do so. Not really thrilled by the thought of weighing in before the race. It is hard enough to just get out there and get those “she is running this!” glances without adding that to the mix. I run a faster pace than I my looks appear. That is not to say I am fast, but I think people look at me and assume I will pretty near dead last. I love proving them wrong. Another reason I hate buying new shoes, I always the sale person who assumes I am buying my first pair and they lead me toward walking shoes. Seriously, never fails. Anyway, getting way off topic! The short answer, I would rather compete with the whole field.
I like your off topic comments! And it’s nice to surprise people. But sucks to have people make presumptions!
I have always thought the 140 was so arbitrary. I was told by a coach once that another coach said that I was “big for a runner” and he proudly told me that he said “she beat all of your girls”. sadly the first part has stuck with me for 25 years. I sometimes feel “big for a runner” or just not wiry as some people expect and now I try to embrace it. If there was a category that I fit in, I would take the prize – just sayin’
I’m famous! I made your blog!! *faint*
Running is my fun, if having to be thinner and not enjoying life as much (see custard and pizza) is a requirement, then I don’t want to go down that route. Granted I’m not “fat”, I’m certainly not in the same league as the speedies.
I wish I was 7 feet tall! well not really. Maybe I have body issue vision, but 175-182 is normal body weight for my height. but reading running forums, my weight for the hieght should be like 165-172, where I look bad.
I feel like I have the opposite problem–I’m naturally pretty thin, so I look like I should be a lot faster than I am. If I met the requirements, I think I would consider registering in an Athena division, depending on what my goal was. If my goal was to get “x” place in my division or whatever, I would totally give it a try. If I was just running for fun, I don’t know if I would bother.
Gosh! Of course, I didn’t even think of it from the opposite spectrum, and that it may be frustrating to have people expecting you to be faster than you are!
Is there a unicorn category?
If so. Sign me up. ASAP. Rofl! Great post honestly. I love how people think running automatically
Morphs you into this leet über human. Nope. Sorry
Gang. We aren’t all that lucky. 🙂
Okay what the heck, 140 pounds is not very heavy for a girl, is it??
I too have the opposite problem. I’m very thin and I think I look the part, but I certainly don’t run like it. LOL People bigger than me pass me all the time.
I raced as an athena in 2010 at a half marathon. The weight requirement was 150. I’m not sure what I thought it was going to mean, but they offered it on registration, and I signed up (still being rather new to the racing scene). I think I placed 12/14 athenas, and it removed you from AG results, which I didn’t know before I signed up. And it’s never been offered to me as a choince in any other race I’ve done…
These comments are interesting though – I’m learning a lot!
Wow! That is really interesting that you signed up for it not really getting what it is!
been reading a bit more about this…the USAT recently switched the weight limits to 220 for men and 165 for women. This is triathlon requirements tho – not sure how it will translate to the running community. http://www.usatriathlon.org/about-multisport/multisport-zone/rules-education/articles/age-group-competition-32.aspx
Thanks for following up! I wonder if readers will think 165 is more reasonable. A lot seemed to think 140 was way too low!
I’ve never seen a race that has Athena and Clydesdale categories, but they’re fairly common for triathlons. I think the ladies threshold is actually really low – I’m thinking some of the pros might actually be 140 because of all that damn muscle.
That said, I saw all body types on Sunday at the half Ironman. I know logically that if I lost 5 pounds, it would be 5 less pounds to haul around. However, in order to lose those pounds, I think I would have to sacrifice the balances nutrition I need to fuel my workouts, so who knows if I’d actually be any faster.
In the 70+ races I’ve done, I never noticed the Athena/Clydesdale division. I know many people who have far from the classic runner’s body that perform amazingly well at races. You can just never tell. Part of what I love about running!
I’ve never run a race where there was an Athena/Clydesdale division that I was aware of, but I would sign up for Athena if available. I don’t think I will ever NOT be Athena! It would be nice to run with other women who are shaped more like me, as opposed to some of the tiny little runners who literally weigh half of what I do, LOL.
This is a great post! I know how weight makes a difference in running and I think I’m a little bigger than my pace group as well. I am happy with where I am, but I know I’d also be happy to lost a few pounds to make running my pace a little easier. I was close to being able to register for the Athena division in the triathlon I’m doing on Saturday (I don’t remember what the weight was for that categorization), but I looked at it and knew I didn’t want to register for that. I don’t know why…
Ooo! Good luck this Saturday! I would love to hear your thoughts (if you figure it out!) why you didn’t want to register for that group.
And oh gosh YES! I run much easier “faster” (for me) paces when I am lighter!
Yes! The Race that’s Good for Life has the Clydesdale/Athena section. The first year I ran the race I signed up for it. I was a good 20 lbs lighter than today but I was still big. Now this was just 3 years ago and hardly anyone signed up for it back then. Then something happened it’s suddenly a second wind for runners who won’t win in their regular group to try for the Athena when they really aren’t “athena” Kwim?
The year I first did I won 2nd in my age/division!!!!!! So yeah it’s a special place for me.
This is fascinating to me! It’s interesting that people assume that people at different weights cannot do the same thing. I mean if you think about it- muscles weight a lot, so if you’re of a muscular build, then you’re obviously going to weigh more than the stick who has no muscles- but that doens’t mean she’s faster, or you’re slower- you would most likely be faster bc you have the strength built up!
Am I making sense? I don’t weight myself anymore because I think the numbers are deceiving- I work out an gain muscle therefore I gain weight-which shouldn’t upset me, but come one, no one likes to see they’ve gained weight and the mind doens’t quite understand it’s muscle weight which is good for you and OK.
So no I don’t like this one bit!
I would agree that just because you weigh more doesn’t mean you are faster or slower…I think a lot of how fast you run has to do with genetics…slow twitch or fast twitch muscles. I have a love-hate relationship with my scale and sometimes need my EFit friends to stage an intervention…I know a good portion of the weight gain is muscle but it is still upsetting. probably another reason I don’t want to be classified as athena in a race.
We will stage an intervention if you need it! Are you getting on more than 1x a day?
Oh gosh. I wasn’t going to go in to Type I and Type IIa and x muscles, but I really wanted to 😉
Yeah! You are making sense! There is probably a fine line where speed favors lightness over muscle (among other things). If you are heavier but have more fast twitch muscle fibers and a higher VO2 max than someone 5 pounds lighter than you, you are probably going to whoop their ass!
OK, I haven’t read through the comments, so forgive me if someone else pointed this out. But, I have read that carrying more body weight (even muscles) = running is harder. Which is why most elites are so waify. SO, someone in that Clydesdale/Athena division is working harder to run. SO … maybe the separate category for awards is deserved?
Regardless, I love the post title.
Yeah, it is definitely harder to do a similar amount of movement work at a heavier weight! And that probably is why they have the categories. And I think some people like that! I do wonder if I would sign up for it, if I saw that option. I am just not sure what I think about it.
Ha ha! Thanks! You are the only person to mention the title 🙂
Athena/Clydesdale divisions are pretty common in triathlons, where weight/size is even more a factor when you’re riding (especially on hilly courses). I haven’t really ever considered them since most races I’ve done have been pretty large and I’m not in the potential running for an age group/athena award regardless. But if I was doing a smaller race where there might be the potential, maybe I would consider it.
Some triathlons are pretty serious about it, and will make you weigh in! I’m not ashamed of my weight/body size, but that does seem like an extra hoop to jump through, and I do think about “what did I eat for breakfast today? did I poop?” if I am being weighed after the wake up time period.
I wonder what it would be like to weigh in! I mean, when I weigh myself, it’s sans clothes! I would have no idea what I would weigh with my tri gear on.
Man. So are you telling me it would be easier to go up hills if I wasn’t carrying all this extra weight?! 😛
The thing I love about running is (a) the ability to compete with yourself re. PRs, (b) the supportive community of runners and (c) being able to kick ass when you least expect it. I always felt a boost when I would run past a skinny minny (whom I thought should smoke me) and was equalized with a dose of humility when someone a hundred pounds heavier ran right by me. I absolutely love that so many different body types can participate in the same event!
I absolutely choose to not compete in the Athena category at triathlons (I think that’s where it’s most common?). 140 lbs is absurdly low for a category that’s meant to be for “heavier women”. I think there are times that it’s appropriate to choose that category, but my level of fitness, I know I can keep pace with the lighter women in my age group. That’s just me , though
One of my running friends from CU is really tall, so she usually qualified for the Athena category, even though she was otherwise “normal” sized. She was pretty offended by the existence of the Athena category, so I guess she never entered. I’m not sure I would sign up, but I think that’s because I know that at my height, maybe I shouldn’t get to a point where I would qualify.
I have never raced with an Athena category. I’ve heard of them though.
I would fit the Athena category, but I’m not so sure I’d put myself there.
I’m super fit for me, and I have lots of muscle to show for it. Does it slow me down? Maybe. But it’s better than being “skinny fat”… I’d take these muscles and a little muffin top any day!!!