Self-Defeating behavior
I forgot I wrote this! Wow, I have over 80 posts in my draft folder… I wonder what else is in there…
I know last week was pretty heavy with article links, but I really thought this article was interesting. Let’s just say it opened my eyes…
I read a really interesting article last week on the Well blog about self-defeating behavior. Don’t worry! This article does not contain any statistics or conclusions – just observations.
The article is written by Dr. Richard A. Friedman, a professor of psychiatry at Weill Cornell Medical College, and it is about a pattern he has seen in some of his patients – that they repeatedly pursue a path that leads to pain and disappointment. That they set themselves up to fail, BUT blame it on “bad luck.”
Like I said, this opened my eyes, because I have met people who do this, but never realized it was what they are doing (I know, I’m not so bright).
In the article, Friedman gives a few examples of this behavior. One is of an older woman who complains that her children are ungrateful and her friends neglectful. He says:
As she spoke, it was clear she felt that all the major figures in her life had done her wrong. In fact, her status as an injured party afforded her a psychological advantage: she felt morally superior to everyone she felt had mistreated her. This was a role she had no intention of giving up.
As she left my office, she smiled and said, “I don’t expect that you’ll be able to help me.” She was already setting up her next failure: her treatment.
Friedman says this masochistic behavior is seen in people and in animals. But that it is a remnant of altruism that has lost value – you and your family will be better off if you succeed.
He acknowledges that terrible things DO happen randomly, and that a history of repeated failures does not mean someone is a masochist.
Many people fall far short of their potential not because they secretly desire to fail but because they are anxious about what it means to succeed.
But he points out if someone does have a pattern of disappointment in many areas of life, a therapist should consider that it could be self-engineered.
Treatment can help, including psychodynamic and cognitive therapy, but there is still no effective medication for masochism. It can be an uphill battle, as patients often try to defeat their therapists’ best efforts. But at least there’s a chance these patients can experience in therapy what they so expertly undermine everywhere else: success.
I suggest reading the article because my recap doesn’t really do it justice. I just read this and thought “Wow. Wow! I do know people who do that. Maybe even sometimes I do that!”
The thing is, how do you interact with people in your life like this? The people who think they have awful luck and the world is out to get them? I don’t know. I know I have some crappy things happen to me, but most of them I can understand why they happened. A simple example is that I feel exhausted and run-down all the time. I could blame it on working so far away from home, but I choose to live far away from home AND not get enough sleep. That is something I need to change.
What do you think? Do you know people who have “self-defeating behaviors”? Do you feel like you ever do?
Themocracy
I know a couple of people like this, and while it really wears thin on me, they are a part of my life and hard to remove. I will listen to their stories and try to be sympathetic, but have to tread carefully with my response. Its hard when there is a constant pity party with some people and you can SEE its a result of their action (or inaction) and choices and you can’t verbalize it to them.
I am sure I can get like this from time to time, but I can see where the correlation between the bad result and my behavior lies.
Great article. I also know a bunch of people who are like that but I don’t know how I should behave around them. Well none of my close friends are luckily like that and I guess I also wouldn’t want to be friends with a person who is like that.. My then-boyfriend was constantly negative which also pulled me down. To be honest, I’ve had enough stupid people “messing” with my life and don’t have the patience to deal with them anymore..
Ugh, I have a very close friend who cannot stop her self-defeating behaviors. It is driving me nuts because I can’t stand to listen to her complain all the freaking time about these situations that she not only creates for herself, but often seeks out. I have been sympathetic for long enough, now I just feel like an enabler, and I’m also resentful at her for being so “pathetic.” I think it’s hard because I end up judging people who commit to this kind of lifestyle unintentionally, but it is really hard to deal with for me. I think, in short, I am a misanthrope and need to live on an island, far away from humanity.
Can I live on an island a few miles away? 🙂
I know people like this and it drives me bananas. Can they really not see what they are doing??? I am talking about people who take it to the extreme, not people who do it every once in a while, which I think is pretty normal.
I am pretty optimistic and I can’t imagine living life defeating myself for no reason. I always tell my kids that if you believe you can do something, you can. (My oldest ALWAYS then brings up flying and she tries to argue that if she thinks she could fly, she still couldn’t. I always point out that she would never actually believe that so it isn’t a fair example)
Sure it doesn’t always work out but if you go into it thinking you can, then you probably have a better chance of talking yourself into finishing/doing whatever you wanted.
I think we are similar in that we have the “try anything” attitude and to us, we cannot understand why other people don’t. It is like what you said about signing up for the tri and the half – you know you will figure it out. Are others lacking confidence?
Holy crap, yes! I see it a lot of time with people who are trying to “get fit”. They complain about not losing weight and “nothing is working!”, yet they aren’t doing anything to help themselves, only setting themselves up for failure.
I’ve seen it a lot with people facing life in general. It’s easier to blame someone else than to take responsibility for yourself and act accordingly.
when things go really bad, I do get in martyr mode but, ever since the husband called me out, it put things in perspective. I try to now take things one at a time and not to leap to conclusions.
I can admit that I’ve engaged in this behavior especially when I was in my 20s. Much therapy has helped me and I’m slowly overcoming it. I know far too many people like this and it drives me nuts. Isn’t that ironic that I do it sometimes and it irritates me in others? Such is the way of humanness! I often call these people martyrs.
We’ve all survived hurts but that does not give us free reign to behave like this.
I read this awesome quote once, something like “the things that bother us about others are the things that we are most bothered about ourselves” (or something like that). So true. Wonder if that means I do this a lot too!
I’m in my third year of recovery from alcoholism and it is just these very behaviors that have to be recognized and admitted and accepted before you can get well. And if you really want to get well, you WILL look at them and start to change. But it takes a ton of hard work. The question I always ask people when they complain about their circumstances or someone in their life is, “What’s your part in it?” Because you ALWAYS have a part in your misfortune. Even down to the catastrophic events that happen out of the blue. Your part in those is your attitude.
Hard. So very hard work.
What a great perspective you bring. And good for you for being in your third year!
Love the data picture in the header.
My mom is a perfect example of this, and it’s very frustrating. Her attitude is almost always so defeatist that it can make you wonder if anything good has ever happened to her. (which is difficult since children tend to be the ‘good’ things that parents accomplish.)
I also tend to see a lot of this at the running store. So many people come in and say “My body hates me, it hurts everywhere all the time, I’ll never be able to run, nothing I try ever works, nothing I will try will ever work, I don’t know why I’m even bothering to buy shoes, it’s useless to spend this much money on shoes since I won’t be able to run/walk/move anyway.” I want to slap them every time (I of course can’t) and tell them that there’s no chance of success if they think there’s not, but at least there’s some chance if they think there is.
Especially bc of my mom I try to not do this, but it creeps in sometimes. I just try to be aware of it!
Thanks 🙂
It is REALLY hard when you have family like this. Because you truly, deeply, want the best for them, but you get so sick you sometimes give up (hmm, not that I know anything about it 😉 ).
I cannot IMAGINE what you hear at the running store! I bet you could write a whole blog about it. Too bad it would be super inappropriate 😉
I’ve totally done this. I don’t exactly play the role of “victim” but I am aware that I sometimes sabotage my own success in fitness, friendships, goals, etc.
I know a few people who think they are victims of the world. Actually, a LOT of my friends feel that way about their lives. Perhaps this points to my self-defeating behavior of choosing friends like this? Arggghhhh self-analyzing is exhausting!!!
Thanks for the interesting article. It definitely made me think…now I will be more aware, and hopefully I never do this myself. I try to always be honest with myself, and never put blame on other people for things that happen in my life. I definitely recognize self-defeating behaviours in people sometimes, but it is hard to get them to realize it. I wish I could just tell them that they would be so much happier if they allowed it, but this could come off as yet another attack, another negative thing in their life.
Oh, I definitely know people like this and I admit that I occasionally engage in this behavior as well. Particularly when it comes to work. Still, it’s difficult for me to watch other people refuse to take responsibility for making their life or circumstances better. Sometimes it’s so clear to someone on the outside!
I have never noticed this behavior in you! 😉 You must be hiding it well 🙂
That is what I feel like – things are so clear to me on the outside. It makes me wonder what is so clear about my issues to others – like the sleep thing! Just go to bed at 8:30, right? Ha ha.
My mother. Nuff said! :p
Wow…I’m totally going over to read that article. I like the level of depth that it goes into and honestly points out what is wrong with self-deprecation. Everyone does it to some extent, but at one point or another, you become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I want to say that my mom or sometimes my brother likes to blame others for their problems…but since i’m the one pointing fingers, perhaps I might be one too!??
WOW – great article. Unfortunately, I’m not very patient with people like that. That’s something I need to work on. I’m definately a “glass is 1/2 full” kinda gal!
Wow…very interesting! I am going to pay attention more to the things I do and say….
Yeah…those self-defeating behaviors are pretty powerful. Sort of, if I give up in advance, I won’t fail.
i agree with anne, if you set your self up for failure it is bound to happen….i guess that is what the Secret was all about. think positive and good things can happen. great post-funny that you have so may in your draft folder 🙂
I’m sure we’ve all done this and it is hard to get out of the never-ending cycle when you are in the midst of it. I know I’ve been there and I’m sure I will be again, but for the most part, I think I’m getting better at it and the view is so much nicer and filled with much more hope on the outside of that circle. Attitude and getting yourself in a good frame of mind helps with so many of life’s curveballs. Also, a good support system of honest but caring friends is priceless. 🙂
Oh, I agree! I am amazed how better I feel after talking to a friend about ANYTHING on a “crappy” day!
oh man DO I EVER. i want to shake these people until their teeth rattle to try and make them see the vicious cycles they’re developed, and how they’re just creating self-fulfilling prophesies of disappointment. but if you point it out, these people are just “proven right” again that everyone is against them… 😛
I used to have a really self-defeating view of things. I thought everything was my fault, which kind of dug me into a deeper and deeper hole. If something bad happened, even something just random, I made it very personal. Now, for the most part, I feel pretty objective and I think I see myself clearly. However, I do maintain some protective sarcasm 🙂
I can be self-defeating…I am my own worst critic and can be very hard on myself.
I have only 15 posts in my drafts folder and I think that is a lot! 80- you go girl!!!
Don’t be too hard on yourself! I think you are awesome and inspiring!
Ha, I am not sure how much quality there is in those 80!
I like this post. I think Im one of those people that falls short of their potential. I COULD do more, but I come up with a million excuses not to. Why? He’s totally right, success is scary.
I dont think I have had luck, or that anyone is out to get me. Its just the going back to school thing that I avoid. Its crazy really.
I do have a friend though that is totally like this. She causes problems for herself, whines and moans about them, but does nothing to fix it. Ive actually stopped talking to her because I just got so sick of it. At some point you have to be willing to help yourself you know?
I am right there with you – live too far from work and don’t get enough sleep. I think some of my self-defeating behavior comes from habit, too. Like I have a beer or glass of wine a few nights a week well-knowing that I should workout. If I have a drink then it’s like, “Oh, I’ll just workout tomorrow” and that wouldn’t happen if I would just hold off on the drink, or not have it at all!
god most people i know have self defeating behav’s from their interpersonal relationships to exercise to their attitude towards what constitutes healhty eating, dietary habits, etc. Great question!
as for all the lovely posts of mine you caught up on. thank you 🙂
Veganism for compassion, first and foremost, i can totally see that bout you 🙂
and yes, i was shocked at the number of ppl who wrote in regarding meat eating and speaking of god/jesus/religion. Same reaction as you had!
Have a great nite, K 🙂
This is an interesting post. Especially because I was kind of thinking about this topic earlier today. One of my employees told me that she doesn’t really like Easter that much because every year for five years something really bad happened. And I mean bad – like deaths, one year her family’s house burned down. This person also has so many health issues and has been in a car accident and in court for other driving issues this year. It’s funny because she’s not the kind of person that you think “oh she’s just a bad apple”. No she seems genuinely good and she always says she doesn’t know why these things happen to here. But I am a firm believer in that you attract good and bad things to you.
Wow! I hope your employee ends up having a good Easter this year. I kind of think you can attract good and bad things as well, but sometimes, you do just have really sh*tty luck!
Actually I am one of those people that were really bad about doing this. I would make big sweeping goals and not set myself up to accomplish them. I have started making smaller more obtainable goals that may or may not lead to big sweeping things but I don’t sabotage myself as much anymore. In which, I no longer make statements like why do these things happen to me….
I don’t know if anyone could have talked me out of it. I did have a friend once say did you ever think the one constant in all of this is you? That is the best thing anyone ever said to me 🙂
this is really frustrating for me and my eternally optimistic self. it is hard to hear of people doing this, as it is a simple fix, in my head. it is your own thoughts that are defeating you, so change your thoughts. it sounds simple, but i do understand that it is hard. i was like this many years ago and the attitude i had to adopt was a “fake it til you make it approach”.
[…] blog about self-defeating behaviours. Check it out, if you haven’t already, and you can read Kim’s post about it too. It makes you more aware, if not of your own behaviour, than certainly that of others. […]